Stage Talk with Rick Koster
Where every show has something to say.
Chapins are many-splendored things
In conversation with Jen Chapin
Is musical talent a genetic component that can be passed down from generation to generation?
That would certainly explain the abundance of some wonderful “family bands” like the Neville Brothers and the Allman Brothers to stampede gleefully across the musical frontier — though whatever DNA strands account for Liam and Noel Gallagher always beating each other up in Oasis, or the Kinks’ Ray and Dave Davies not speaking to each other for 80 years, or Brian Wilson wishing Mike Love wasn’t his cousin, or the Andrews Sisters spending more time in court than they did performing…
You get the concept.
But, yes, there’s nothing quite as magical as a family musical ensemble when it works.
Take “Harry Chapin’s Greatest Stories Live featuring the Chapin Family” taking place Saturday, Oct 17 at the Garde. It’s an expansive concert built around the rich musical and philanthropic legacy of the late Harry Chapin — celebrated in songs and anecdotes by brothers, sisters, children, cousins and more.
Onstage will be Tom Chapin, Steve Chapin, Jen Chapin and The Chapin Sisters (Abigail Chapin and Lily Chapin) — an amazing and diverse group whose respective and illustrious careers span a wide array the possibilities of roots music — all backed by members of the original Harry Chapin Band including Big John Wallace and Howard Fields.
Expect tantalizing original material from all these artists though, of course, Harry’s legacy is understandably the focus through tunes like “W.O.L.D.,” “Circle,” “Taxi,” “Cat’s in the Cradle,” “Sunday Morning Sunshine,” “I Wonder What Would Happen to This World” and “Last Stand.”
Earlier this week, we spoke with Harry’s daughter Jen, a delightful artist and songwriter whose work explores jazz, soul and pop with a breathtaking sense of melody and lyrics that eloquently reflect her own family dynamic as well as an acute sense of social justice.
Here’s the conversation, edited for space and clarity.
The Garde: One of the biggest and perhaps unexpected developments in the music business over the last decade is the massive success of tribute acts. But that categorization isn’t totally accurate where the “Harry Chapin’s Greatest Stories Live” is concerned, right?
Jen: On the one hand, we are kind of a tribute band, you know. We’re literally paying tribute, but we’re a tribute band that’s partially made up of the people who were there at the time.
My uncles Steve and Tom and (bassist) John Wallace were there with my dad from the beginning. They literally grew up together in Brooklyn Heights, and Tom and Steve and John sang in the boys’ choir at Grace Church in Brooklyn Heights in the 50s.
At the same time, given that sort of tribute orientation, we are all people who have our own styles, our own careers and our own ways of making music. So that’s, I think, one of the special things about the show. We’re all related and all have this kind of folk heritage, but we’re also pretty sonically diverse.
Garde: Give us a quick breakdown of the onstage familial components. Do we need a lineup card?
Jen: (laughs) Well, my Uncle Tom and my cousins, Abigail and Lily, are the most folky and are really immersed in the tradition. They know a lot of the old labor songs, some of which morphed into civil rights anthems.
My uncle Steve has more of an orchestral perspective. He was the boy in the church choir, back in the day, who was taken under the wing of the organist. So, he has more of a classical and church music repertoire than any of us. And then there’s me.
Garde: I want to ask you about your music. But first, since it’s October, did your dad take you trick or treating?
Jen: Uh, not that I specifically remember but that’s a good question because my dad grew up a city kid and my parents moved us to the suburbs in Long Island — right on the other side of Long Island from the Garde.
And he really embraced all those kinds of suburban things like my brother Josh’s soccer games. He would go to the soccer game and then take everybody to Carvel ice cream after the game, win or lose.
He was on the road a lot, of course, but when he was home, he was all in. We had projects, and I remember a dollhouse that we custom made to fit the size of a certain doll I had. The doll was bigger than usual, so we designed that and customized it together and bought the balsa wood together at the hardware store and all that stuff. It was great.
He was a really involved dad, but I don’t have a specific memory of trick or treating with him. But I also think that was typical of my generation. It was probably same for you. Your parents didn’t go with you, you just went out there. You could be, like, seven years old and it was OK. It was safe. You got your pillowcase sack and you went out knocking on doors. My dad would have said, you know, “I like your costume, go out and have fun.” So, not Halloween, but everything else.
Garde: Those comments add a really warm component to your father’s persona for someone who’s just a fan of the music. Let’s come at it from your perspective. Do you have a favorite song of your dad’s?
Jen: I have different songs for different reasons. Some that I just love to sing, you know. Others have personal meanings where … I guess I’ll just focus on “Cat’s in the Cradle,” even though it’s so obvious.
Garde: It would be interesting to get your perspective on that song.
Jen: I went through a journey with that song when I was really little. It was just kind of the wallpaper, you know, because as long as I have had consciousness, I’ve had that song in my head.
I used to like some of my dad’s longer, more meandering stories, and “Cat’s in the Cradle” was almost too perfect, a cute little pop nugget, you know. It’s three-point-five minutes and it’s produced super tight and works perfectly on the radio. But I’ve come around to liking that song — and, of course, the lyrics are written by my mom.
Garde: Exactly. That adds a lot to the discussion.
Jen: She wrote the words as a poem. As lyrics, the fact that you could have random bits evoking children and the nursery rhyme — cat in the cradle, the silver spoon, the man in the moon… Those images land with people even if it’s sort of nonsense in a way that really works in the song. I don’t want to use “genius,” that’s an annoying word, but the lyrics are pretty advanced.
So, I’ve come to really enjoy singing that. You know, when I was a teenager and first started singing my dad’s songs, I loved “Shooting Star” and “Old College Avenue” and the love ballads. But I came to appreciate the phrasing and the bounce of the words of “Cat’s in the Cradle.” It’s almost hip hop-like, the way you have to deliver the phrases with this great rhythmic intensity.
Garde: Given that they are your mother’s lyrics, do you think your dad inferred any sort of complaint in the song?
Jen: Oh, no question! I mean, I think you could find interviews on YouTube with him because she wrote it about her first husband and HIS dad. Yes, my mom had two lives. She was married to the son of the Brooklyn borough president back when that position had more political weight. Today, in the structure of New York City government, it’s more of a figurehead kind of like cheerleader job.
But then, her father-in-law was like a power broker in New York City politics and her husband, you know, had to sort of live in the shadow of the “great man” and they didn’t really communicate that well.
So she was observing that and just saying, “Wow, they’re not having a relationship.” In a way, what she based the song on was sadder, if not toxic, than a song about all kinds of good intentions and just missed opportunities.
Garde: I had no idea.
Jen: Yeah, she just had the inspiration and wrote it. Then my dad wrote the music and recorded the song in 1974. That’s when it came out. BUT … “Taxi” had come out and hit the charts in 1972 and all of a sudden he was gone a lot on tour.
And that tore my family apart because, when they got married, the way my mother remembers it, dad told her he wasn’t going to be a traveling musician. He was going to be a novelist or something or write songs for his brothers. Then he was successful on his own and suddenly became this popular artist who was never home.
Garde: The song suddenly had more than one meaning.
Jen: I think he took it that way. My mom has a quiet presence and she’s not the confrontational type. But sometimes she’ll call you out or make a comment on the side. So I think dad thought, “Okay, this song is also a message for me as well as just a universal sentiment.”
Garde: Do you believe that music, or any art form, really, is a nurturing thing — that immersing yourself in music can have an effect in terms of vitality and longevity? Looking at the folks on this Chapins tour is certainly an argument that would seem to support that. direction.
Jen: It totally makes sense. Like my uncle Tom is over 80 years old and he still has this incredible energy and vitality. I can say the same thing about my uncle Steve. He’s a few years younger than Tom, but it’s amazing how fit and strong they are. They might have lowered the keys of the songs they sing a bit over the years but, musically, this older generation is still growing and pushing themselves. It’s just super inspiring.
It’s a model for us. When we first started doing these, these shows, we had even the older generation, my grandfather, Jim Chapin, who was an iconic as a jazz drummer and educator who literally wrote the seminal book “Advanced Techniques for the Modern Drummer” in 1948. He was a huge impact on all of us, and we used to loop him into these shows and, you know, he was self-aware enough to be like, “Yeah, this is kind of a gimmick because I’m an 80-something-year-old guy playing super-fast and hard on the drums.” But it just amazed people. It was a fun and cute thing but at the same time, it was REAL and it was musically very good. I could look at my grandfather and be on the stage with him, and he was still making music, you know?
So yeah, I think you could do a scientific survey and find it’s not just a feeling. I think it’s a reality that playing music keeps you young and keeps you going.
Garde: In that spirit, and with so many Chapin and Chapin-centric musicians onstage Saturday, how do you streamline the show?
Jen: It’s just kind of evolved organically over the years. (laughs) On the one hand, “streamline” is kind of antithetical to the shape and tradition. My dad was well known for NOT streamlining. “Taxi” was, what, six or seven minutes long? He was not trying to streamline that story. He was giving it the full capacity. And our show reflects that. We do two full sets which are almost an hour each.
And while the focus is on dad’s music and legacy, we do allow ourselves some time for everybody to do their thing. I mean, everybody wants to, you know, play their songs and have their moment and the spotlight. And you look around onstage and, you know, my uncles are so proud and happy for their daughters and niece — and we feel the same way playing with them. And the audience senses that connection and appreciates it.
Garde: As I referenced earlier, I want to touch on your music through the prism of your 2016 album “Reckoning.” It’s just an amazing collection of songs, wonderfully recorded and performed. There are certainly sonic indications of your involvement with jazz and soul and sophisticated songcraft. The music business is what it is, but it’s a shame “Reckoning” wasn’t a huge hit.
Jen: Oh, thank you for saying that. We did our best. It was independently released, so I’m already on the outside trying to get it out there. I did invest in some of the public and crowdfunded it, so that built up a certain constituency for it. And it got a bit of indie press and we did what we could, but I didn’t really have the infrastructure. And I’d had some NPR airplay with earlier music.
But I think now more than ever, and even 10 years ago when “Reckoning” came out, you had to be so assertive on social media to make it all work. And that’s something I struggle with, you know, just grinding out the content every day. It’s just not something I’m good at. So, you’re right, the way the music economy works now, it just doesn’t necessarily favor this kind of project.
Garde: Well, people are missing some really fine songs with a great deal of lyrical substance. There are some very wistful moments, some angry moments and some great observations about family and culture.
Jen: Well, thank you. Yeah, the wistful, the wistful thing is certainly resonant for me, and I mean, even on the actual title track, I’m dealing with just the limitations of like my own ability to get my music out there and having not really gathered any real team of stakeholders. It’s a hard thing to think about that goes beyond just making and writing music: Am I going to be able to get my music so that it has its own momentum or will it just fade out?
Garde: It’s interesting that, stylistically, you’ve probably ventured more than any other Chapins outside the roots/folk territory. Is that accurate?
Jen: Yeah. I grew up with my dad hearing the music that was important to him and literally hearing him working on songs as a little girl. But I also have a whole, um, world of inspiration from jazz and soul. And even, you know, 90s hip hop is, so I have a little bit of a different musical, um, space of inspiration than the rest of the family. And my trio, which includes my husband, Stefan Crump (the Grammy-nominated bassist) and my guitarist Jamie Foxx, are very influential to me and they’re coming more from the jazz perspective.
Garde: Last one. Your father was committed to fighting hunger and, in 1975, co-founded World Hunger Year (or WHY) as part of his efforts to end world hunger. The non-profit lives on today as WhyHunger. The Chapins remain committed to social activism, correct? And it seems to me these are really tough times where it’s hard to stay positive.
Jen: We’re on the same wavelength. It’s absolutely hard, but the eternal truth of activism and being a socially aware artist is that it feels like there’s no choice. I mean, my dad even had that song. “There Only Was One Choice.” So, now more than ever, there’s no choice but to just keep doing what we do because otherwise you fall into despair and passivity.
It’s the challenge of the artist to think about the bigger picture. What steps can we take that transcend the latest outrage? The other thing, and I think my uncle Tom quotes this frequently. He’s re-quoting my dad, who was re-quoting Pete Seeger.
And Pete Seeger was asked, “You’ve been doing this folk activism for decades, trying to fight fascism, trying to be part of the civil rights movement — all these things, all these movements again and again and again. Do you think you’ve made any difference?”
And he said something like, “Well, I don’t know if I’ve made a difference, but I do know that this work has given me the opportunity to be side by side and collaborating with the live hearts, the live hands, and the live minds. You know, actual human beings who are your inspiration.”
And I think that also translates to the organization that’s closest to our hearts, Why Hunger. The work of Why Hunger offers elevating and amplifying grassroots solutions to hunger and poverty that really are focused on the root causes. Issues like building self-reliance and confidence. And those are the people you want to hang out with.